President Donald Trump told MS NOW on Thursday morning that Iran has “no idea who their leader is” at this moment, an assessment experts on Iran have said is incorrect.
“They’re all messed up. They have no idea who their leader is. You know, we took out, really, three levels of leaders. And everybody that was even close behind him,” he said, referring to the late Iranian Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei. “So they have a hard time figuring out who the hell can speak for the country. They just don’t know.”
He added that the country’s navy and air force have been wiped out, a claim he has made often since the war began.
“They’re really a mess, and now nobody wants to help them, because they no longer have the fear factor,” Trump said. “They’re no longer — they’re no longer the bully of the Middle East.”
Trump spoke to MS NOW after he announced an extension of the precarious ceasefire between the United States and Iran on Tuesday, halting his threat to bomb Iranian infrastructure. Trump said the extension was given to allow the Iranians an opportunity to arrive at a “unified proposal” to end the war.
Meanwhile, the U.S. has continued to block ships from entering and exiting Iranian ports as the battle continues over access to the Strait of Hormuz, a key passage for a fifth of the world’s oil. Progress toward ending the war appeared at a standstill on Thursday as both sides gave conflicting information about whether they would participate in peace negotiations in Pakistan.
Experts on Iran have disagreed with Trump’s claims about the country’s leadership, telling MS NOW that its government is not divided and that claims of deep divisions in Iran or the emergence of a new regime are false.
Vali Nasr, a professor of Middle East studies and international affairs at the Johns Hopkins University School of Advanced International Studies and co-director of the school’s Rethinking Iran Initiative, said Trump’s erratic claims likely have complicated negotiations.
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“I think they are divided on whether to trust Trump or not,” Nasr told MS NOW. “One group says Islamabad is a waste of time and Trump is not serious; another says it could yield results. It is his behavior after last round of talks that has caused a debate.”
A New York Times article based on interviews with 23 people in Iran, including senior officials and those with ties to the Khamenei family, reported that Iran’s government is not, in fact, divided and that there is no new regime.
“In reality, the Islamic republic has not been toppled. Power is now in the hands of an entrenched, hard-line military, and the broad influence of the clerics is waning,” Times reporter Farnaz Fassihi wrote. “At every juncture, [the generals] have taken the lead in deciding strategy and the use of resources.”
Khamenei’s son, Mojtaba Khamenei, was named his successor in March. Experts have said the 56-year-old’s ascension to supreme leader signaled that the regime’s hard-liners remain in charge despite the damage to its top leadership.
But Mojtaba Khamenei has yet to make any public appearances so far. He reportedly sustained injuries early on in the war, a claim that members of the Trump administration have echoed.
It’s also unclear what role the supreme leader has played in talks to end the war. The first round of negotiations was led by Iranian Parliament Speaker Mohammad Bagher Ghalibaf and Foreign Minister Abbas Araghchi. Iran has not yet confirmed its delegation for the expected second round of talks, which are currently on hold.
Jacqueline Alemany is co-anchor of "The Weekend" and a Washington correspondent for MS NOW.
David Rohde
David Rohde is the senior national security reporter for MS NOW. Previously he was the senior executive editor for national security and law for NBC News.
Clarissa-Jan Lim is a breaking news reporter for MS NOW. She was previously a senior reporter and editor at BuzzFeed News.