For What It’s Worth is a live podcast about the stuff we use, the trends we question and the products we can’t stop talking about. Stream new episodes bi-weekly on YouTube, hosted by NBC Select editorial director Lauren Swanson and NBC Select reporter Zoe Malin. Shop our product picks below and on Amazon.
A small space doesn’t have to feel cramped, cluttered and claustrophobic. A little organizing and beautifying goes a long way, but it requires the right products — yes, we’re talking about bins and baskets, label makers, shelves, peel-and-stick wallpaper and more.
NBC Select editorial director Lauren Swanson and I have faced our fair share of apartments with little-to-no storage and closet-sized dorm rooms, so we know what it takes to turn a small space into a home. In this episode of For What It’s Worth, NBC Select’s live podcast, we break down our tips and tricks, plus the items we swear by (including those we’ve re-bought numerous times).
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Episode transcript
ZOE: Welcome back.
LAUREN: All right, welcome back.
ZOE: We are talking about, honestly, one of my favorite topics ever today, which is small space hacks. And as two New Yorkers, I think we’re experts. I know we’re experts.
LAUREN: We are experts, according to us.
ZOE: According to us, we are experts. I think that even if you are not living in a small space, everyone’s always looking for organization hacks. And I do think these apply no matter what size.
LAUREN: Well, you could live in a large space that’s poorly organized and it doesn’t feel like a large space. Or you could live in a small space that’s perfectly organized and it adds, I swear, square footage to your apartment.
ZOE: I completely agree with you. What is the smallest space you have ever lived in? I love asking people this.
LAUREN: I’m really bad at square footage, so I don’t really know. But my dorm room freshman year was very small, especially because you have half of it. And it was not one of those dorm rooms where we had a kitchen. It was like, No, we have a room, and we shared a wall with the bathroom, and you have half of it, and you have to get creative because you’ve got a desk, a dresser and a bed. You have to figure out how to make this your everything: your kitchen, your getting ready area, your sink, your bed, your study room. You had to make it everything. What about you?
ZOE: My smallest space I’ve ever lived in is, during my sophomore year of college, I got a single, which I wanted, so I was very happy. However, it was formerly a closet. And I’m not kidding, it was formerly a closet. It fit the twin-sized bed and then I could stick one arm out and I hit the other wall. So it was that narrow. And I will never forget when my parents dropped me off of college and we were moving in, they were like, We can’t be in here. This is extremely claustrophobic, and I don’t know how you’re going to do this.
LAUREN: You’re sleeping in a coffin.
ZOE: But I thought it was the best thing ever because it was mine. I didn’t have to deal with anyone. It was my space, it was my quiet area, and I would have never given it up. I had friends that came in there, and they were like, This is insane. I can’t believe you’re doing this.
LAUREN: How have you not gone crazy in your solitary confinement?
ZOE: I was so happy. It was smaller than a jail cell, no doubt. It fully was.
LAUREN: But I’m sure it was better decorated.
ZOE: Oh, it was adorable. My mom and I had watched so much TV about little home hacks and stuff, and we decked that thing out. So that was really the beginning of, I think, my DIY, small space era.
LAUREN: What did you pick up then that you still do now for small spaces?
ZOE: I think two things. First, under-bed storage.
LAUREN: Love it.
ZOE: It’s extremely important. I do not think that anyone should have a bed that touches the floor because you’re giving up such valuable storage space.
LAUREN: I agree.
ZOE: So that’s one. And then the second that I swear by and I tell everyone living in a city, Manhattan or otherwise, you need to make sure you’re using your vertical space. Walls are storage.
LAUREN: On top of your cabinets, too.
ZOE: Everything needs to have a spot, in my opinion. I like everything to have a place. I like to know that it goes back there, that I can find it easily. And vertical storage is so insanely key. I was watching a TikTok the other day, and this girl was like, I’m moving to New York, and this is how big my apartment is. And I was like, You have so many doors. You should be so grateful. You can put those things that hang on the back of the door with the shelves. There’s these Elfa storage systems you can get at The Container Store. I was sending her links in her DMs. I was the most annoying person, but I was like, You don’t understand how much opportunity you have here. You have so much opportunity because of your doors.
LAUREN: You have a chance to get really creative.
ZOE: And you, like me, are a DIY-er.
LAUREN: Oh, I love it.
ZOE: What have you done in your apartment? Tell us everything.
LAUREN: Well, we definitely have everything on top of our cabinets. For the first year that we lived in our apartment, we just had a dresser, and then another dresser that we had Facebook Marketplace-ed. I was so over that, so I think the second year, I bought a ton of wardrobes and my vision was to make it look like built-ins. It very much does not look like built-ins because my floors are crooked, so they’re kind of cattywampus. I have a ton of those wardrobes that are set up along the wall of our bedroom, that’s one thing. And then we have little bins in all of them, and then bins on top.
ZOE: I love a bin.
LAUREN: Oh, I think I have bought the same set of bins probably five separate times. They come in a pack of three, and every time I’m looking around, I’m like, We could fit another three bins up there. And so then I’ll buy more.
ZOE: That’s what I do. I look at a space and I’m like, Wait, I know the dimensions of my very favorite bins, and I know they will fit there. Add to cart. I literally have a bookmark saved on my laptop because I just know that they’re the perfect bins. I think one of the biggest mistakes people make, speaking of bins, is getting bins without covers, without lids. You need to stack. That’s part of your vertical storage.
LAUREN: Yes, you have to be able to stack. The ones that we have in the wardrobe don’t have lids because they’re being used all the time, but the ones that we have on top of the wardrobes have tops. We have wedding presents that I’ve put in there that we’re not going to use for a while, like new towels. We have our winter stuff up there, and then we rotate and put the summer stuff up there. So we have bins. My closet is very small, and I’ve used the double hangers. My closet only has one rod, and so I bought one of the things that makes it a double layer, which is perfect because in the closet there’s so much space that you’re not using below. My shirts only take up so much space, then you throw the dresses on the side, and I had all this unused space, and I was like, What am I going to do with it? Throw in a double rod and you’ve doubled the size of your closet.
ZOE: The double rod, the double hanger. Are those the “as seen on TV” Wonder Hangers?
LAUREN: No, I don’t have the Wonder Hangers. I have the double rod. I think Chad has a bunch of the Wonder Hangers because he got a little jealous. He was like, Well, you have so much space in your closet. I’m like, No, I don’t. I made this space. And so then he started to DIY his closet a little bit. It’s his closet, but it’s also our closet because it’s where we put our coats and the cleaning supplies and everything else. And so he has a little corner of it. It’s not really his closet, but I tell him it’s his closet.
ZOE: The Wonder Hangers, the double rods. That is huge. I think that adds so much.
LAUREN: Or a slim hanger. That’s another one.
ZOE: I also recently started doing the S hooks and putting my pants on them. I think that is huge. That was revolutionary to me. I loved that. Another big storage hack, in my personal opinion, is that you need to label things.
LAUREN: The bins, especially.
ZOE: Such a mistake. I think a label maker…
LAUREN: I love a label maker.
ZOE: Oh man, it’s my favorite thing ever. I nerd out about my Brother lime green label maker. I think it’s fantastic. And I will label everything. If there’s seven things in a bin, you better believe there will be seven labels to tell me every single thing.
LAUREN: Good for you.
ZOE: Thank you. I’m very serious about it.
LAUREN: You have to be because a part of small spaces is getting creative with organization, and if you’re not hyper-organized, then it’s your downfall. What’s the point of being creative with a small space if you’re not organized? If you don’t have everything labeled out in a bin, for example. Because I have 20 bins, let’s say, on top of these wardrobes. And now every time I need something, I’m going to have to pull out all those 20 bins, and it’s always going to be in the last bin. No. I pull it out, I look, I see oh, it’s Chad’s T-shirts. Great. I put it right back. Not what I need. You have to.
ZOE: You have no choice. I think it’s so important. I also think that when you are in a small space, sometimes it’s not necessarily about organizing, but it’s about hiding things. Some things can’t necessarily be organized, like if you have a ton of cables somewhere, and it just happens to be where your Wi Fi box is, and you just simply cannot organize it despite your best efforts. You need to figure out how to hide it. One of the things that I did, and I still do it in my apartment, is I get wicker bins that are kind of crappy. They’re not the best bins in the world. And I take an Xacto knife and I split them down the back, and I shove the extension cord and all the wires in there. And then there’s a lid on it, so you think it’s a little decorative thing, but it’s actually a cable organizer. Little things like that, when you can hide messy stuff, also makes your small space feel bigger.
LAUREN: Definitely. You’re not looking at cords, you’re not looking at utility. You’re looking at something that’s clean. Cleanliness; that’s important in a small space.
ZOE: You can’t have clothes everywhere and shoes.
LAUREN: I mean, we still do.
ZOE: Yes, my laundry situation is not the best.
LAUREN: I don’t look at the chair that we have in our bedroom.
ZOE: Everybody has the chair.
LAUREN: It’s literally the Mount Everest of clothes. Are they clean? Are they dirty? No one knows. I think if I had to guess, they’re probably slightly dirty. Not dirty enough to put in the laundry, but not clean enough to hang up.
ZOE: I think that’s a great middle ground.
LAUREN: That’s why you have the chair. The chair is no man’s land.
ZOE: Exactly. I used to think I was alone in the chair. I have to be honest, I really did. And then I was on Instagram one day and someone posted about the chair, and I’m like, We all have a chair? I felt seen.
LAUREN: Yes, you have to have a chair. I saw somebody that tried to convince me to get a coat rack or something. Like an external clothing rack. And they like, Instead of the chair, hang up your slightly dirty things that you might wear again on this clothing rack. It’s like, No! Why would I do that?
ZOE: And waste hangers? And waste time when I’m just going to find another chair?
Lauren: It’s like, I’m going to wear those pajama bottoms tonight. Why do I need to put them away? They’re right there.
ZOE: I completely agree with you. I think that’s crazy.
ZOE: In your small space, you have made it more beautiful, too. You have added some things.
LAUREN: What have I added?
ZOE: Your backsplash. You inspired me.
LAUREN: Oh, I love my backsplash. My very expensive backsplash. I have to redo it. I’ve had it for five years, and it just started to peel right by the stove, so I need to redo it.
ZOE: That’s impressive for peel-and-stick backsplash. That’s extremely impressive to me.
LAUREN: I’m excited. I think I’m going to change it up. I think I’m going to change the style up a little bit and get a different one. We didn’t have a backsplash behind the stove, and it’s not just a beautification thing. It’s actually a necessity because the amount of tomato sauce I’d be wiping off those walls would drive me insane. I would scrub the walls back to whatever’s behind them. Concrete? I don’t know. There would be no paint left.
ZOE: I would do the same thing. I feel like in your small space, making it beautiful really goes a long way. Because not only does it make it feel bigger, but it makes it feel cozier. It makes it feel like yours. A small space doesn’t have to feel cold and like a cubicle. I think you can do so many things. I did peel-and-stick backsplash. I did peel-and-stick floors, which tested me, but I did it.
LAUREN: How have those held up?
ZOE: Remarkably well. I had low hopes, I’m going to be honest with you. I bought them during Black Friday because they were on sale. I saw other people use them — on Wayfair, I saw reviews, on Amazon, I saw reviews — so I was like, You know what? Everyone seems to like these, and they look gorgeous, so I might as well just try it. And were they a bit challenging to put down? Yes. They’re thicker than backsplash, so they tested me a bit. But with the water or from the shower or from the sink in the bathroom…
LAUREN: You have them in the bathroom?
ZOE: Yes.
LAUREN: And they’ve withstanded? That’s my big concern.
ZOE: I kid you not, people don’t understand that it’s peel-and-stick. One time I said to someone, I can’t use my vacuum on my peel-and-stick floors because it scratches them. And they’re like, where do you have peel-and-stick floors? This whole apartment is tile or wood. I’m like, No, my bathroom is peel-and-stick. And they ran into my bathroom and they’re like, What? It really looks real. It makes such a big difference. Honestly, you wouldn’t know. Truly, you wouldn’t. It was a project, and my bathroom is tiny, and it was still a project, but I really recommend it.
LAUREN: You’re whipping out the Xacto knife. It’s your best friend.
ZOE: That was key. I also did peel-and-stick wallpaper, which is life-changing, especially if you’re moving into an apartment or a home that’s small and every single wall is white. Adding personality goes a long way. And that peel-and-stick wallpaper… I love it. I got a floral one.
LAUREN: I’ve never gone that far but maybe I need to.
ZOE: That was a recent one for me. I was on the fence about it because I was going to do an accent wall in my bedroom. And I was like, Oh, it’s a very big wall, and this could take a while. But I had my cousin’s help, God bless her, and truly, it looks like a different room. I love it so much. And I did my front entryway, too, or my first wall when you walk into my apartment. Huge. It makes it feel like there’s actually an entryway, not just a wall. And that’s the other thing about small spaces: you can create little moments in them, but you can’t do it without putting a little effort in.
LAUREN: A little design, a little creativity.
ZOE: A little something, yes. And you don’t need to be an expert in interior design. Go on Pinterest. I spend so much time on Pinterest.
LAUREN: My favorite thing that we have added to our apartment, or a storage solution that we have in our apartment, is our couch. It’s a modular couch. We had a lovely couch that I was obsessed with that wouldn’t fit up the stairs when we moved into this apartment. The angle was just too tight.
ZOE: You couldn’t pivot.
LAUREN: Right, exactly. It could not pivot. It was not going to make it up the stairs. And so the restaurant downstairs was vacant, and they kept the couch in the restaurant, and we’re like, We don’t know what to do with it, but then we ended up selling it. So we needed to get a modular couch so that it could fit up the stairs.
ZOE: In little pieces.
LAUREN: Yes, so we had just the three pieces of the couch, and then eventually I found out that the couch actually had a storage ottoman that you could also buy. I bought that thing and that has become my absolute favorite thing. It is massive, but it is useful because it’s a part of the couch, so we’ve got a nice little L-shaped couch. And you open the lid of this ottoman and it has all of our crafts, and hobbies, and puzzles and all of the stuff that you would have no idea where to put elsewhere. It’s in our crafting ottoman.
ZOE: I love that. I love a crafting ottoman.
LAUREN: Although I do need to clean it out because I think some of that crafting has been neglected for a while. When was the last time I picked up a calligraphy pen? Like, it’s got to go. I’ve never done a puzzle, but it’s there in case I want to do a puzzle.
ZOE: In case one day you feel inspiration.
LAUREN: Right. It’s just not puzzling season right now.
ZOE: Exactly, yes, it’s the summer. But eventually it’s going to be fall and winter. You’re going to want to puzzle all of a sudden and you’re going to have them in your crafting ottoman.
ZOE: I think that you need to make sure, when you have a small space, that everything is useful.
LAUREN: No uni-taskers. You have to have things that are multitasking.
ZOE: Yes. And tchotchkes I love. I am a huge tchotchke person. Small ones, though. We do not need a pouf that does nothing but sit there and you put your feet on it.
LAUREN: It’s a dust collector.
ZOE: Exactly. There’s other ones that have the lid, and then there’s storage inside. Anything that you can buy that is multipurpose, that you can put storage in, that has a secret compartment or something — that, to me, goes such a long way. All of those little couches, ottomans, the little benches that you lift up the top — those are the biggest lifesavers in my opinion.
LAUREN: You just reminded me that I have a bunch of fake books that have the storage inside.
ZOE: No way.
LAUREN: But I’ve never used the storage inside of them, so I need to store some things in there.
ZOE: Oh my god. Put all your secrets in there.
LAUREN: I could put my calligraphy pens. Now we found a way to keep them. I love it.
ZOE: Aw, you do. You don’t have to throw them out.
LAUREN: I’ll just hide them and forget that they’re there.
ZOE: Until, you know, five years from now.
LAUREN: I’ll be like, oh my gosh, that’s where they were! Oh, genius.
ZOE: I moved every year for five years, and every time I moved, it hadn’t been that long, but I found something that I was like, That’s where I put that? That was actually really smart if I remembered it. But I don’t. I have to start writing things down. Like, Note to self: you are going to forget that you put this here, but it is here. I’m going to write myself a note in my phone.
LAUREN: You have to do monthly inventory.
ZOE: You really do, especially in a small space, because I don’t know about you, but I just shove things places sometimes if I just can’t look at them anymore. I’m like, I cannot look at this puzzle sitting on my coffee table anymore. So I shove it somewhere.
LAUREN: Especially with the amount of product that we get. You have to follow a one in, one out rule. I’m not adding one thing to my apartment without getting rid of something else. And I think I’ve gotten less sentimental about inanimate objects as I’ve gotten older, but in my youth, I’d be like, Oh my God, this reminds me of this one thing, and I have to keep it because…
ZOE: What if one day this person who I haven’t spoken to in 17 years asks me, Do you still have that? And then I’m going to say, yes. And then we can reconnect. It’s a whole thing. You go on this whole journey, and it’s a whole thing.
LAUREN: I used to cry getting rid of things, but now I’m like, Spark joy? No.
ZOE: I don’t know about you, but when I cover Prime Day or Black Friday, I need to throw stuff out. We are looking at such a high volume of products…
LAUREN: You’re just sick of all of it.
ZOE: Yes. I’m in my apartment for multiple days when we’re writing and we’re updating these articles, and I look around, and I’m like, I have so much stuff in here and I’m throwing out everything. I just walk around my apartment with a garbage bag and get rid of stuff. It is exhilarating. It is the best feeling ever.
LAUREN: It is such a good feeling when you clear stuff out. It’s wonderful when you’re just like, I am not a hoarder. I am not a hoarder. That’s what I have to tell myself now, actually. The spark joy thing doesn’t actually work as well for me. It’s reminding myself, Do I keep this? Do I not? Lauren, you’re not a hoarder. Get rid of it.
ZOE: It’s okay, you don’t need this anymore. This is not serving a purpose for you. But it’s very challenging.
ZOE: My “would you rather” that I have for you is: would you rather live in a small space or live in a big space where you literally kept everything you’ve ever owned?
LAUREN: I don’t think I’d like living in a big space.
ZOE: I don’t either.
LAUREN: I don’t want to see the ghosts of my past.
ZOE: I feel the same.
LAUREN: I think what you have in your space reflects who you are in that moment, and it’s very much a moving target, a little bit. You’re constantly evolving and changing, so why would I want things that I had when I was in college? When I was in college, I had DIY-ed coat hooks out of spoons that I had stolen from the restaurant that I worked at.
ZOE: That is crafty, Lauren.
LAUREN: Creative, right? I saw it on Pinterest. Creative, but would I want those now? No, they were yellow and blue. That doesn’t reflect who I am now. They would be sitting somewhere, and I think that’s just not reflective of me, and it’s just trash at some point. So I would rather be in a small space where it’s actually reflective of who I am than in a large space that is not me.
ZOE: I agree with you.
LAUREN: What about you?
ZOE: I feel the same way. I do not want to live in a large space that’s a bottomless pit because then I will never get rid of anything. And then what has meaning to me anymore? I love that about a small space, whether you’re organizing and you need to throw stuff out, or you’re decorating and you’re being really intentional about the mood and the feeling that someone gets when they walk in. I love that you have to be so intentional about every little piece because it really does reflect you. I think it tells people a lot about you. I love looking around my apartment and knowing everything has meaning. I think that is really special about a small space, and something I wouldn’t get in a large one. I don’t like when I’m in a large space and I hear echoes. That creeps me out. We watch too much true crime for that. I don’t think that’d be good for me.
ZOE: Other than your ottoman and your hangers and your bins, do you have any other favorite organization tools?
LAUREN: Well, we were just talking about things carrying over from college, and the one thing that I think I still have from college is my under-bed storage. I had gotten the absolute perfect under bed trunk thing that’s shallow enough that it fits underneath practically any bed. You didn’t have to put it on risers or anything, but it fits so much. I shove this thing full, and then I sit on it, snap it closed, throw it under.
ZOE: I just got wheeled under bed storage for the first time.
LAUREN: It’s the best.
ZOE: What have I been doing?
LAUREN: You’re like, look at me, Wonder Woman, pulling this out.
ZOE: I got the best ones. They’re from Rubbermaid and they come in a pack of three, I think. I bought two packs and I had the best day of my life organizing. I was like, This is amazing.
LAUREN: There’s nothing that gives you more of a thrill, I feel like, than getting new organizational things. You’re like, I’m a new woman, watch me roar.
ZOE: The Container Store is quite literally heaven. I find the Container Store to be calming. I will walk through there and I’ll just be a very happy version of myself.
LAUREN: Who am I going to be next week when this is all done?
ZOE: Like, oh my god, wait. Can I be the person that constructs this over-the-toilet thing, and puts all of my cotton pads and Q-tips in these perfect little acrylic organizers. Can I be that person? Yes, I can be that person. I love that so much. But the under-bed storage on wheels? 10 out of 10. I also, even though it’s not on wheels, I know, but the Open Spaces under-bed storage are my all-time favorite. I tell everyone on the team about them because they’re beautiful, so if you see them under your bed, under your couch, whatever, you don’t mind. It’s this really nice linen cream texture. It was just such a lovely thing to look at. And then they have that leather strap that you use to pull them out so it looks very sophisticated. And you can stuff these things. You can over-stuff them. And I think that that is key. When you can over-stuff anything, I’m sold.
LAUREN: That’s how I feel about my trunk. I can over-stuff this trunk and just sit on it…
ZOE: And somehow, everything fits. Are you a vacuum seal bag person?
LAUREN: I have them. I don’t love them. I’m not a huge fan. I understand their purpose, but they’ve never functioned as intended in the way that I’ve used them. They’ve either leaked or they vacuum enough, but then they’re in weird, odd shapes that kind of look like the landscape or the topography of the moon. And you’re like, What am I supposed to do with that? It’s not flat.
ZOE: Where am I supposed to put this?
LAUREN: Right. Now I’ve got something that’s lumpy and bumpy, and every inch is important, and now I’ve got all of this extra open area. What am I supposed to do with that?
ZOE: This is making more problems for me now.
LAUREN: And they become weirdly heavy.
ZOE: The only thing I use them for is my winter jackets.
LAUREN: Yes, I think that’s the only thing we use them for.
ZOE: That’s the only thing because that is very helpful, I think. And then I put that in my under-bed storage, and then I don’t think about it. I actually don’t even think I could fit my giant parka in my under bed storage if it was totally inflated.
ZOE: I also really, really, really think that the coffee tables that come out and you can eat on them, but then they also have storage in there, are the best thing since sliced bread. I don’t have one.
LAUREN: I don’t have one either.
ZOE: I’m pretty upset because…
ZOE and LAUREN: My parents have one.
ZOE: Why are our parents better than us? It’s not fair. My parents bought one and I was like, This looks kind of annoying. Now I’m jealous every time I go to their apartment. Every time.
LAUREN: I mean, we eat on our couch every single night, practically.
ZOE: So do I.
LAUREN: Our dining table is storage. There’s piles of papers and work bags and things that I’ve collected that just end up on our kitchen table, so we’re going to go sit and eat on the couch.
ZOE: It’s easier.
ZOE: I think in small spaces, hooks are huge, too. I think hooks do so much.
LAUREN: Just get the things off the floor.
ZOE: Get everything off the floor. And hooks are not just for your jackets and your sweaters and your purses. They’re great for jewelry. I think putting a little hook situation somewhere that’s safe that you can hang your necklaces on or your bracelets on if you don’t have space for a nice jewelry box that holds everything is huge. I am a big fan of that. I have this weird, I think it’s an old-fashioned hamper in my bathroom, and the top part of it is a little cabinet, but it doesn’t have any shelves. And I was like, what am I doing with this? And I went to Home Depot, and I tried to find shelves, and none fit because it’s so thin. And I just bought these little Command hooks, honestly, on Amazon, and I hang all my jewelry in there. I created my own jewelry box. And I think finding little innovations like that in your small space means everything.
LAUREN: And I think the other thing to that is, if there’s not an open box solution to what you’re trying to solve — like there’s not a “turn this old school vintage hamper into a jewelry box” ready-to-go situation — that’s where you need to get a little creative. That’s where you’re like, Well, what can I use instead? Use the Command hooks, or do this or that, or whatever.
ZOE: Now, Pinterest and TikTok and YouTube and all these places have so many people showing you their DIYs, and teaching you how to fix things and do things. I love people that create the Ikea built-ins, kind of like you said, and they make an Ikea piece look like it’s a million bucks. I think following those instructions and just really dedicating yourself to it, you can do it. You can totally do it. And you really need to have a toolbox at home. That’s my last piece of advice.
LAUREN: Yes, we’re big advocates of that.
ZOE: We’re big fans of toolboxes, and they’re great gifts.
LAUREN: They are great gifts, except when your dad gets you and your sister bright pink toolboxes for Christmas, and your sister refuses to use a pink hammer, so your dad has to sheepishly go back to Home Depot and return them.
ZOE: But truly, toolboxes? Amazing.
LAUREN: I wouldn’t say I love a small space, but you make it work, especially when you’re in a big city or you’re in college or whatever. It’s such a rite of passage to live in a small space. And it’s such a luxury to have that small space be your own and make it your own, that you should embrace it. Embrace the moment that you have of this small space being yours.
ZOE: I agree. I think that is always my advice. Do not resist the small space. Welcome it. Make it yours. It can be comfortable. It can be homey.
LAUREN: Embrace the small space.
ZOE: Yes, don’t resist it. It is what it is. And I agree with you, it really is a rite of passage. I love hearing people’s stories, and I think it is so important to just dedicate yourself to it. Make it beautiful however you want to make it beautiful. Make it yours because it’s a memory. And I think it’s so funny to talk about it with everyone that you meet.
LAUREN: And then you get just really creative.
ZOE: You really do.
LAUREN: It exercises a part of your brain that maybe you wouldn’t if you were in a different space.
ZOE: I mean, all of a sudden you could learn you’re a DIY-er. You never know. Everyone has that bone.
LAUREN: Loft that bed.
ZOE: I love it.
LAUREN: All right, well, that’s it.
ZOE: Bye!
LAUREN: See you next time.
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I’m a reporter at NBC Select and I co-host our live podcast, For What It’s Worth, with editorial director Lauren Swanson. In this article, I summarize Episode 6: Hacks for Living in Small Spaces. I included a summary of the episode, a transcript, products we recommend during the podcast and related articles.
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