Summary
More than 24 hours after Hurricane Ian slammed into Florida`s west coast, devastation shows it`s one of the most destructive storms in the state`s history. President Joe Biden declares Hurricane Ian a major disaster. Hurricane Ian strengthens into a hurricane again and heads towards Georgia and the Carolinas.
Transcript
JOY REID, MSNBC HOST: That`s tonight`s REIDOUT. "ALL IN WITH CHRIS HAYES" starts now.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHRIS HAYES, MSNBC HOST (voice-over): Tonight on ALL IN.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We got to move. The houses are destroyed.
LESTER HOLT, NBC NEWS ANCHOR: You can`t live in this house?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, we can`t live in this house.
HAYES: Incredible devastation in Florida in the wake of Hurricane Ian.
JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The numbers are still -- are still unclear, but we`re hearing early reports of what may be substantial loss of life.
HAYES: Tonight, what we know about the damage, the loss of life, and the rescue efforts. Plus, the daunting prospect of rebuilding in an era of climate catastrophe. And as Ian regains hurricane status, what we know about preparations beyond Florida, with Senator Raphael Warnock of Georgia.
And what we`re learning about what Ginni Thomas told the January 6 Committee.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Did you speak with your husband with your beliefs in the election being stolen?
HAYES: When ALL IN starts right now.
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HAYES: Good evening from New York. I`m Chris Hayes. More than 24 hours after Hurricane Ian slammed into Florida`s west coast, it`s now clear it will go down as one of the most destructive storms in the state`s history. In came ashore just shy of a category five hurricane bringing 150-mile-per- hour winds, more than a foot of rain in some areas, over just a 12 to 24 hour period. That is a one-in-1000-year rainfall event.
We also saw record storm surge bringing the water level up 12 feet in some parts of the state. Tonight, the people of Florida are coming to grips with the widespread devastation. We don`t yet have a reliable sense of the scale of fatalities. So far, there have been 10 confirmed deaths. This afternoon President Joe Biden visited FEMA Headquarters in Washington D.C. and spoke of his concern about the potential loss of life.
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BIDEN: It made landfall yesterday, and it is still moving across the state today. This could be the deadliest hurricane in Florida`s history. The numbers are still -- are still unclear, but we`re hearing early reports of what may be substantial loss of life.
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HAYES: The President also declared the hurricane a major disaster which makes federal funds available for recovery. As you can see, that recovery is likely going to be long and costly. This is Fort Myers where the hurricane tore through structures and lifted boats well out of the water and onto land. In nearby Fort Myers Beach, this Shopping Plaza has been completely flattened. You can see the debris strewn about looking almost as if a bomb went off.
The sheriff of Lee County which includes Fort Myers, and Cape Coral, Bonita Springs, released this video from the helicopter tour he took over the area this morning, showing terrible structural damage along the beach there. This is the scene of utter devastation today in Bonita Springs after Ian tore off roofs and demolished homes.
Then there`s Sanibel and Captiva Islands which remain totally cut off after multiple sections of the causeway connecting them to the mainland were simply washed away. Just north, in Punta Gorda, residents are dealing with the massive amount of water Ian brought. Roads and even entire neighborhoods are still underwater.
Across southwest Florida today, more than 500 people are rescued from those floodwaters pulled from their cars and their homes. And two and a half million customers remain without power across the state. In fact, sections of the electric system are so badly damaged, they`re going to need to be rebuilt before power can be restored.
And here`s the thing. We`re still not done with this storm, with Ian. This evening, it has strengthened back into a category one hurricane. We`re going to check in with NBC meteorologist Bill Karins later for the latest forecast. But what has made Ian so destructive as far is it brought in essentially worst-case scenario along nearly every metric.
When it hit Florida, Ian had a massive span bringing hurricane force winds across 90 miles, tropical storm force winds across 350 miles. As it was making landfall, those winds reached 155 miles per hour, putting it just two miles per hour below Category Five strength. The other thing is that Ian moves slowly traveling at just nine miles per hour, dumping massive amounts of rain as it hovered over of Florida. The storm surge also reached record highs in multiple areas as the water came in along with the high tide.
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And then there`s the location where Ian hit. Ian cut a swath across a very densely populated area, one of the fastest growing the state, indeed, one of the fastest growing areas in the country. And of course, the attraction there in the Gulf Coast there, in the Fort Myers metro area, is the weather and the water which is right there.
One of the most exposed high-risk places there in that region, maybe even in the entire state is the City of Cape Coral. With the population of about 200,000 Cape Coral sits on a large Peninsula surrounded by water. And Cape Coral is a classic Florida real estate story. Founded in 1957, the area was a swamp, brought up -- bought up by developers who marketed it to prospective buyers as their own slice of paradise, a waterfront wonderland. You can see on the sign there.
Back in 2006, PBS aired a documentary detailing the history of how the city came to be.
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Their salesmen spread out across the country and around the world praising and sometimes exaggerating the joys of living in this new waterfront wonderland that was springing to life in southwest Florida. Prospective buyers were flown to Cape Coral where they were wined and dined and taken on car, plane, or boat tours, and subjected to a high-pressure sales pitch. They called it fly and buy.
Small aircraft often taking off from an impromptu strip on the Cape Coral Parkway, would fly buyers over the vacant land where a salesman dropped bags of flour to mark their new home sites.
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HAYES: Thing is, as improbable as it seemed when they were doing that, it worked. As Michael Grunwald writes in Politico Magazine, Cape Coral "really captured the essence of Florida, precarious civilization, engineered out of a watery wilderness, a bewildering dreamscape forged by greed, flimflam, and absurdly grandiose visions that somehow stumbled into heavily populated realities."
About 60 years after its founding, this is what Cape Coral looks like on a sunny day. It`s beautiful, full of beautiful homes, and nearly all of which are on the water. All waterfront thanks to the 400 miles of canals that weave through the city. And as you can see from the pictures, it looks like an incredible place to live.
Of course, the danger is what happens when you get a near direct kit from nearly category five hurricane on that peninsula that sits just a few feet above sea level. This is what Cape Coral looked like yesterday afternoon as Ian swept through. The canals flooded. There was water in the streets and homes. This what the area looked like today. There`s so much water and it`s hard to tell where the canals are and where the streets are.
So, Cape Coral in the aftermath of Hurricane and show the danger of what happens when these two trajectories intersect, when they meet. On one side, the development of these kinds of areas in Florida and other places, but Florida specifically, that are attractive precisely because of their proximity to the water and their natural beauty. And on the other, the undeniable fact that climate change is happening. And as we put more carbon into the air, as we heat the atmosphere, it is producing more frequent, more extreme weather events that hit precisely those highly desirable areas like Cape Coral. What we`re seeing today in southwest Florida is the aftermath of that.
Joining me now Craig Fugate. He was a former FEMA Administrator under the Obama administration. Before that, a state emergency management director in the state of Florida, so he knows a thing or two about the aftermath of a hurricane in that state. Craig, first of all, from your personal experience, just assessing the scope of the damage here, what`s your initial assessment?
CRAIG FUGATE, FORMER ADMINISTRATOR, FEMA: Well, the way I`ve been describing it is this is southwest Florida`s Hurricane Andrew. And it`s going to change a lot of things. I mean, if you think about Hurricane Andrew, it was a big force to change. One is how the state responds to disasters, but also the degeneration of statewide building codes. So, I think what we`re going to see coming out of Southwest Florida and looking at the type of damages and looking at what the water did, what the storm surge did, is hopefully, as we rebuild, we don`t build it back the way it was. We build it for the future, and we build it for the risk that these storms are not once-in-a-lifetime events. They`re occurring more frequently.
HAYES: Andrew was in `92 that hit South Florida largely and obviously was massively destructive. I still remember it. I was 13 years old. The most -- the largest hurricane disasters by dollar amount, Katrina is near the top, but two of the top five have happened in the last five years, Harvey, and Maria, Sandy, and then Ida in 2021. What are -- what are the immediate things that need to happen on the ground in southwest Florida right now in the aftermath of this to get -- to make sure that people are safe and secure and have shelter and have access to the things they need?
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FUGATE: Well, what you`re seeing today, their real focus is search and rescue, getting the people that have been caught off perhaps injured, and getting into the high ground, and then it`s getting roads up. You can`t do a lot until you can get in there. And everything from getting utilities up to trying to get a handle on how bad the housing situations.
You`ve heard from people there, nowhere to live. And this is where FEMA has been working with the state, putting together their Housing Task Force. One of the things that the President`s declaration will allow is to provide rental assistance. But there`s so much devastation there may not be enough housing in the region. So, where can people go -- you know, we saw this with Hurricane Maria, people actually had to leave Puerto Rico and come to New York, Orlando, to get places to live while they were rebuilding.
So, these are questions that are having to be answered in real time. But all of this is in the backdrop of still a situation where search and rescue is taking place, people are still having to be accounted for. And that`s going to take some more time. And that`s the priority from responders.
HAYES: Yes, I remember we were down there five years ago for Irma, going by a shelter that I believe was a hockey stadium in Lee County. Thousands of people are in there because they evacuated their homes. And you know, what you quickly realize in all those situations is a facility like that can work for 24 hours. But you know, after that, it`s not a place that you can put people up. It just doesn`t really work for that. It`s not designed for that.
And to your point about the sort of supply of safe housing, I mean, that seems like that`s going to be a real challenge for state, local, federal officials to make sure people have places to stay.
FUGATE: Absolutely. And FEMA on Irma, a lot of those folks could go back home.
HAYES: Right.
FUGATE: but for this storm, there`s nothing to go back to. So, that will be -- you know, as we deal with search and rescue and those immediate needs, that`s going to be the next phase is where do we put people, where are the longer term shelter options? Like you point out, you want to get them out of those emergency shelters, and get them somewhere else where they can get the basic needs, they have a place to stay, they got you know, all the -- all the stuff they`re going to need.
But rebuilding here and getting enough housing back, that`s going to be a huge challenge, because it`s not only looking at where people are going to live, think about trying to get the economy back if you don`t have any workers. So, there`s a lot of stuff that`s going to be happening that people are having to think through that are going to have, you know, major ramifications days, weeks, and months out.
HAYES: So, you got to get the grid and the roads backup. You got to get emergency services restored, of course, then shelter. I want to circle back to what you said in the beginning about this being southwest Florida`s Andrew, and that Andrew change things. I mean, I was reading last night about Cape Coral. There were new FEMA-issued flood maps that were put out, I think, in October 2021, in which huge parts of Cape Coral were in areas that had elevated flood risk, in fact, zones that essentially required mandated federal flood insurance.
And people were upset about that. And I understand when the government announces, hey, your premiums are going to go up, and you have to buy this flood insurance. There was a huge political back and forth. But the fundamental issue here is the risk profile has changed in these places. And it just seems like that`s going to have to center in the discussions about rebuilding.
FUGATE: Yes, this is -- this has been played out. I mean, Florida may be the canary in the coal mine. But this has been played out across coastal areas in the nation. And as FEMA has been updating those risks, what it will mean is when people go to rebuild and their homes have been destroyed, they`re going to have to elevate it. That`s going to add more cost.
And I think there`s this tendency, we fight this so much, but I think we need to be forward-thinking. If we`re going to rebuild in these high-hazard areas, it doesn`t mean we can`t develop. We`re going to have to change what we`re doing and how we`re doing it so when these storms hit in the future, there`ll be damages, but won`t cause the catastrophic losses we`re seeing from the storm.
HAYES: Yes, that really is the big question of how much we integrate that. What about six months out? I mean, what about the sort of not the long, long term of rebuilding but making sure that people -- some semblance of normalcy can be restored? What`s the sort of post the next few weeks agenda here?
FUGATE: Well, once you start getting, you know, the search and rescue winding down, you really start focusing on how much infrastructure can you get back up. You`ve already heard. It`s not even going to be, you know, practical to repair the power system in some places. You`re just got to build it back completely. But you want to get things like your fire stations, and law enforcement, hospitals, and all of that up and running. You need to get businesses back up.
You know, one of the things you got to remember it`s there`s a permanent residence down here, but it`s also a big tourist destination and their season is the winter months when it`s dry.
HAYES: Right.
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FUGATE: And so, getting that up and getting hotels open just to get the economy --- they`ve been clobbered from COVID, now this. That`s going to really impact this economy.
HAYES: All right, Craig Fugate, always great to get your perspective on these kinds of things given your experience. I really appreciate you making time with us tonight.
FUGATE: Thanks for having me.
HAYES: Coming up, hurricane Ian now heading back towards the U.S., if you could believe it. The latest on the storm track and the devastation left in Florida next.
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HOLT: Then I met another survivor. Fishermen and Coast Guard Veteran Matthew Simonson.
MATTHEW SIMONSON, VETERAN, COAST GUARD: You`ll see every -- your life go.
We were actually eye-level -- we were taken out some of these top wires, not the top of --
HOLT: You`re eye-level to these wires?
SIMONSON: Oh, yes. We`re that high.
HOLT: Riding the surge?
SIMONSON: Yes.
HOLT: Goodness gracious.
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HAYES: When Hurricane Ian slammed into the west coast of Florida yesterday, it was initially category four. For a short time today, it was downgraded to tropical storm but is once again a hurricane currently in the Atlantic off the northeastern coast of Florida. We expect Ian to make a second landfall in South Carolina sometime tomorrow.
Joining me now is Meteorologist Bill Karins with the NBC News Climate and Weather Unit. Bill, what`s the latest on what we know about the destruction the storm and its track?
BILL KARINS, NBC NEWS METEOROLOGIST: Yes, I mean, we`re with -- last night, we were together and we knew it was bad. But we didn`t quite -- you know, we -- in our minds, we thought, OK, this is probably going to look like most category four and five hurricane landfalls. And then the pictures that we`ve been showing you, yes, it was just as bad as we had feared.
So, the storm itself, it`s nothing like what it was. And it`s still going to do damage up there in areas of South Carolina and also through North Carolina. But I want to kind of give you a perspective on how this is probably going to rank because our insurance adjusters out there, they always trying to throw some big numbers out. But it was a category three, I heard maybe it was going to be a 10 to $20 billion weather disaster. Then it went up to a category four. And then everyone`s seen all the pictures of what we were looking at today. And now I`m hearing people throw out numbers from 50 to $100 billion.
So, we actually have a list. We`ve ranked all our billion-dollar -- billion-dollar weather disasters. And these have been adjusted over inflation. That`s why we still have Andrew on the list and other ones from the past. But by far, the most expensive was Katrina, $186 billion, one of the biggest storms, largest storm. That storm surge is 28 feet. We`ve heard maybe this one got up somewhere between 12 and 16 feet. So, you can just -- you know, that was a different ballgame.
Harvey, of course, was going to flood -- you know, one of the most horrific flood stories we`ve ever had in the Houston area, highly populated dense areas, a storm that just stalled. And then of course, we have Maria and Sandy and Ida on here from last year.
The one thing I will point out, look at the years, 2005, 2017. You know, these records go back away. I mean, I have another list. We can go further down. 2017 is Irma, then Andrew adjusting with $56 billion. That`s `92 and 1988, 1993. But you notice how many of these are more common. So, there`s two factors going on here.
One, we`ve developed the coastlines and the population of this country, you know, more now than ever. So, there`s more things for the hurricanes to hit. So, that does add up the numbers. But then we also have to factor in the fact we`re warming up our planet and the Gulf and everything else is warmer. So, that means that these hurricanes that when they do form, they can get a little extra juice to them and be a little stronger. stronger Hurricanes do more damage.
HAYES: Yes. And that -- we`ve seen this -- I mean, the heat of the water is a huge indicator, right, for how the -- how powerful the storm is going to get. Part of the energy is coming from that, right?
KARINS: Correct. If we have a hurricane, and you know, we know that like -- you know, there`s like a threshold. We`d like to say usually it`s kind of like 80 degrees. So, if we had hurricanes, over 90-degree water, that can really blossom fast. There`s other factors like wind shear and stuff, but you know, the engine for these storms is the heat from the ocean.
And that`s all that hurricanes really are. They`re big engines. They take the heat from the tropics, and they redistribute it in other areas. So, that`s what we`ve been doing. So, you know --
HAYES: That the engine and the tank. Now, we`ve got this -- we`ve got this now passed over the peninsula, back out in the water where again, it can`t exist for that long and on land. It`s back on the water where it`s drawing energy up from the Atlantic Ocean. What are we expecting in the next day? I mean, I suspect this is not anything like what the Gulf Coast saw.
KARINS: No, but it has gotten a little bit more like OK, should we evacuate? How bad is this going to be? Because yesterday, it was like maybe a strong tropical storm. Now, the hurricane center is saying a category one, 80 mile per hour winds. And obviously, to get 80-mile-per-hour winds in areas that have a lot of trees like Charleston, Hilton Head, beach areas up here through Myrtle Beach all the way to Georgetown, that`s where we could have problems.
So, here it is now and here`s the forecast path. There`s a couple of things that are going to be interesting tomorrow of what happens with this. This is not your -- this is an atypical hurricane. All the strong winds are out ahead of it, all the heavy rains. The heavy rains starting now, and then the strong winds will be coming in after midnight. I think they`ll peak somewhere between six to about 10:00 a.m.
Once the center crosses, actually things will get better pretty quickly. So, the worst part of the storm is before landfall. And this is 2:00 p.m. where we`re estimating at somewhere near Charleston here. High tide is at 11:41 a.m. Now, once again, you know, it would really help if we could get a low tide landfall.
HAYES: Right.
KARINS: So, we`re going to add another two to three feet to whatever storm surge we get out of this. We care about the centerline only for the surge. The winds are going to be pretty strong everywhere, the surge is to the right. So, that forecast has gotten worse for Georgetown and Myrtle Beach. And in 2017, Hurricane Matthew left its mark on that area and this could be similar.
These are the peak winds. Myrtle Beach could get up to 80. That gets your attention. That`s going to knock power out knock and knock down trees. And as far as the storm surge, they`re still saying possibility of four to seven feet. To give you a perspective, we showed you the pictures of Naples yesterday. They had a storm surge of six feet. Of course, Naples is very low-lying but for the -- you know, all the areas along the coast and the beaches and all the little islands out there, it gets serious, you know, if we get it. Hugo was the worst ever at 12 feet. You know --
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HAYES: In that region.
KARINS: In that region. So, you know, seven feet was Matthew five years ago. So, this has at least the potential to get up there, you know, to be of a concern.
HAYES: All right. Well, we got our fingers crossed. Of course, we will continue to monitor that. Bill. Karins, thank you very much.
As Hurricane Ian moves away from Florida, we`re getting a look at just how powerful the storm was as it rolled through part of the state. In Orlando, which again is inland, its central Florida, MSNBC Correspondent Jesse Kirsch met one resident trying to help out others in a submerged neighborhood despite having ankle-deep water in his own home.
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KYLE JONES, ORLANDO RESIDENT: I lost power last night about 12:50, and I still don`t have power now. So, I`ve been out running around a day, going to pick up all the friends, helping friends.
JESSE KIRSCH, MSNBC CORRESPONDENT (voice-over):Not having power, that starts to come into play when you got to -- you got to have something to eat.
JONES: Yes, it does. But I`m a resilient guy. I`m -- you know, I`m a veteran. So, you know, we`ve been taught how to survive. Whatever I can do for these people over here, if I can, you know, I`ll be back over this way to help them out.
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HAYES: And Jesse Kirsch joins me now live from Orlando. Jesse, obviously, you are not on the coast, but the amount of rain this storm brought is quite a bit. What`s the latest there?
KIRSCH: Yes, Chris, we`re more than 100 miles from where Ian first made landfall in the United States yesterday for context. We got about half as much rain here, according to officials, compared to what we were expecting potentially to see. But the results are still in some areas catastrophic. It`s dark out, so it`s kind of hard to tell. But you can see those signs lit up behind me, slow down, no outlet, street signs. And just the tops are showing up some of them. So, the poles are below water.
There`s a basketball hoop out there that I`ve been looking at in the daylight. And we know a rim should be about 10 feet high. Well, we`ve been seeing water a couple feet up the beam there. And I`m also just going to check there`s a rock we`ve been keeping an eye out to see if the water level has receded here. And that rock still has water at about the same point. So, even though it has been dry here for several hours now, we are still dealing with standing water in some parts of this community.
Officials say in this neighborhood alone, they had to rescue approximately 30 people today. And this area includes some mobile homes, which were one of the points of concern yesterday for officials in the Orlando area. They had asked those residents to move to harden shelters to ride out the storm.
Again, the rain and the wind gusts are largely behind us. We are only expecting some of the impact for a few more hours according to officials. But if the wind picks back up, and I`m getting a little bit of a breeze now, a breeze compared to what we`ve been seeing over the last 24 hours. If the winds pick up to a certain point, again, that`s going to get in the way of the recovery efforts for crews.
And right now, we`ve still got more than 100,000 people according to officials who are in the dark. But thankfully, Chris, it is cool out here tonight. It`s not humid. There`s a nice breeze blowing through here. And that can make a big difference for people who might have relied on the air conditioning. That much more if it remained hot in the aftermath of the storm.
And thankfully we`re told there are no reports according to officials of significant water outages. So, it seems people still have that clean drinking water here. But again, we are so far from where the worst Ian was seen on the U.S. -- in the U.S. when it made landfall. And we were still for hours as it approached this area, seen the impact with heavy rain and with wind. And this is the result of this storm even though we didn`t get a direct hit and even though it was well after it had started to weaken. This is the result here. You can only imagine how much more devastation we`re going to be seen from the west coast of Florida, Chris.
HAYES: All right, Jesse Kirsch, thank you so much for that report. I really appreciate it.
Coming up, the historic damage from Hurricane Ian how Florida rebuilds in the era of permanent climate disaster. Next.
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GOV. RON DESANTIS (R-FL): We`re committed to restoring the infrastructure is needed. That is not going to be an overnight task. That is going to be something that is going to require a lot of -- a lot of love and care. It`s going to require a lot of resources. But we`re going to do it because we understand how important it is.
When you deal with these things, you stabilize, you provide the help with people, but you want to get back to some semblance of normalcy as quickly as possible. And it`s going to be harder in some areas than others.
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HAYES: Florida is no stranger to natural disasters, and the people who live there are all too familiar with the risks of hurricanes and flooding. Ron DeSantis, governor of Florida, as you just heard, says his state is going to rebuild from the catastrophic destruction brought by Hurricane Ian. But there is a course real question about how to do that because the threat of these massive storms only increases due to climate change and our ocean is getting warmer.
And there`s no real easy straightforward answers here. These debates will likely be one of the defining issues of our shared political life going forward. In southern Florida, including the city of Miami, experts warn the time is now to start asking the tough questions about what public infrastructure needs to look like in the face of impending climate disaster.
Joining me now is someone who`s been working on climate change issues and hazard mitigation in Florida`s coastal regions for nearly three decades. Ricardo Alfonso Alvarez, former Deputy Director of the International Hurricane Research Center.
It`s great to have you. And I know this is something that you`ve spent your career thinking and writing about. How do you see the impact of Hurricane Ian, the awareness of climate risk along the Gulf Coast since this is such a fast-growing area and hasn`t had something quite this bad in quite a while?
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RICARDO ALVAREZ, FORMER DEPUTY DIRECTOR INTERNATIONAL HURRICANE RESEARCH CENTER: I think every extreme event like Ian needs to be looked at as a reality check, as an opportunity. And I think the west coast of Florida, of course, had impact recently. Irma a few years ago, Charlie, a few years back, but nothing at this scale. So, now is the time to take a hard look at what worked, what didn`t work, why. And talking about rebuilding, it`s not the rebuild as we had it before. How do we need to rebuild so that it won`t happen again or the next impact won`t be as bad? That`s the hard question that we need to answer.
Fortunately, we have some ideas of solution. Here on the southeast coast of Florida, we have a track record of having made changes. For example, after Hurricane Andrew, big changes to the building code, new technology, and new testing protocols for products to build our houses. So, that`s the kind of approach we need to use. But not in on a case-by-case basis, but it has to be a massive approach. It has to be regional. We cannot afford to just do it project by project.
HAYES: I`m curious how much -- I mean, obviously, there`s a policy component. You also wonder what the insurance industry and role they have played, and will play. I mean, obviously this will be an enormously expensive event for insurers and reinsurers. And there will be questions about what the building codes look like and what the insurance premiums look like for people, particularly very exposed areas like the Gulf Coast and Cape Coral and places like that. How do you anticipate that playing a role in the -- in the rebuild?
ALVAREZ: I think the insurance is going to provide an incentive for action. Just like the legal system provides it when people start suing the government are not taking action, for example.
HAYES: Right.
ALVAREZ: So, I think the insurance -- we`ve already seen this with the flood insurance, the wind insurance, and the problems we`re seeing, the rates go up. So, it will be an incentive in my view. And I think it`s going to be a very good incentive for fast action because somebody said that the time to ask the tough questions is now. No, the tough questions -- it`s past time For those questions. Now, it`s time for action.
HAYES: Well, I guess the question is, what are those tough questions, right? So, in certain cases, it`s where should we build. In certain cases, it`s where should we rebuild. Then there`s questions about what the planning or the actual buildings should look like. What do you see as the sort of central questions that have to be asked in the aftermath of something like this?
ALVAREZ: Well, number one, do we really understand the hazard and the influence of climate in exacerbating the impact of hurricanes. To a large degree, we do but we still have some issues that we don`t fully understand or pay attention to. For example, the unseen hazard of saltwater intrusion push the sea level rise that corrodes the foundation for buildings and put them in danger. So, we need to understand that better.
And understand that some solutions that we have refused to look at, for example, the Dutch style solution, because of the limestone issue here. We haven`t really done our homework. We need to do our homework. We can add in weight the impact of the waves, damping that the impact, but we could also do research. We really need a moonshot, a dedicated moonshot when we do research. Is it possible to seal limestone in a way that it won`t filtrate.
HAYES: Fascinating, yes. There`s -- a moonshot to preserve the coastal regions of Florida and across the country and the world is sort of what we`re staring at right now. Ricardo Alfonso Alvarez, thank you so much.
ALVAREZ: Thank you.
HAYES: Still to come, she is married to a Supreme Court Justice and she pushed to overturn the 2020 election. And today, Ginni Thomas testified before the January 6 Committee.
[20:40:02]
Plus, Georgia Senator Raphael Warnock joins me on his reelection campaign and hurricane Ian`s threat to his state, ahead.
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GINNI THOMAS, WIFE OF JUSTICE CLARENCE THOMAS: I am happy to be here, but my husband told me that the President asked about me twice. So, I`m wearing my Trump button. We need -- hey, it is the time to be behind whoever is our president because there`s a war for our country and the things that we believe we have going on.
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[20:45:05]
HAYES: One of the most notable supporters of Donald Trump`s attempted coup was the wife of Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas, Ginni Thomas. She quite infamously sent Trump Chief of Staff Mark Meadows some truly bonkers text messages, including forwarding along a conspiracy theory that have been floating around in right-wing corners of the internet about Joe Biden, his family, and other prominent Democrats being held at Guantanamo Bay for their supposed crimes against the country.
Thomas was also a very active proponent of Trump`s big lie of stolen election. She tried to pressure a group of Arizona lawmakers and try to overturn Trump`s defeat in that state as part of the fake electoral scheme. And the weeks after the election, and I think this is actually the most important detail, she was in contact with John Eastman. That is the Trump lawyer who wrote one of the coup memos, one of the masterminds behind the Trump coup attempt, inviting him to speak at a meeting she was organizing about efforts to overturn the election. And in fact, she knew John Eastman because he had clerked for Justice Thomas.
Now, as a result of his wife`s activism on behalf of the ex-president, there have been calls for Clarence Thomas to recuse himself from Supreme Court cases related to Trump, the big lie, or the insurrection. So far, Thomas has refused and in fact has ruled on cases relating both to the election and January 6. Naturally, his wife Ginni has become a top target for the January 6 Committee.
Today after months of back and forth, she finally appeared in person before the committee speaking for about three and a half hours on a voluntary basis, although she was less than forthcoming with reporters this morning.
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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you speak with your husband about our belief of the election being stolen?
THOMAS: (INAUDIBLE).
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Miss Thomas, do you still believe the election was stolen?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: As long as the session goes on today.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Are you done for the day? Are you coming back? Do you speak to your husband about the election and your conversations with Mark Meadows?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAYES: According to New York Times, Thomas told the committee she did not discussed her efforts to overturn the election with her husband. The committee appears to be investigating her conversations with John Eastman. Additionally, January 6 Committee Chairman Bennie Thompson told reporters, Ginni Thomas said she still believes the 2020 election was stolen from Donald Trump nearly two years later. Thompson also said that parts of her testimony could make it into the next committee hearing.
That hearing was of course supposed to be held yesterday but was postponed because of Hurricane Ian. We now believe it will be held sometime next month. Thompson says it will not be delayed until after November`s midterm elections where a number of Democrats are locked in high-stakes races to protect the future of American democracy. I`ll talk to one such Democrat, Georgia Senator Raphael Warnock next.
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[20:50:00]
HAYES: After leaving a trail of destruction in Florida, Ian regain hurricane strength over the Atlantic and the storm is now heading back towards the U.S. It`s expected to make landfall again tomorrow in South Carolina. Residents both there and further south in Georgia are being warned about storm surge as well as strong winds and flooding.
Some coastal regions like Liberty County and Tybee Island in Georgia are already preparing for impact. I`m joined now by one of Georgia`s two Democratic senators, Senator Reverend Raphael Warnock. Senator, are you concerned about the storms impacting Georgia?
SEN. RAPHAEL WARNOCK (D-GA): Good to be with you tonight, Chris. Yes, I`m from coastal Georgia, from Savannah. My family is there. And so, I`ve been monitoring the storm closely. And I certainly want to encourage folks who live on the coastal areas, to pay attention to their local officials, do everything you can to protect yourself and your family. Meanwhile, my office stands ready to help in any way that we can.
HAYES: You are obviously up for election in these Midterms. You`re just serving your first term. What do you see as the defining issue or issues for voters in your state in this upcoming midterm?
WARNOCK: Well, I can tell you that representing the people of Georgia is the high honor of my life. This is work that I came to as a result of my lifelong commitment to service. And I continue to work on the things that I`ve worked on my whole career, trying to help people to live the best lives that they can and to provide for their families. And so, I`m glad that I was able to pass in the Inflation Reduction Act, a provision that I wrote which caps the costs of prescription drugs for seniors.
Another provision that caps the cost of insulin. I come from a state where 11 percent of the adults have diabetes. When you need insulin, you need insulin. It`s a drug that`s been around 100 years. Big pharmaceutical companies have been price-gouging insulin. I`m glad that we were able to cap it and to give Medicare the ability to negotiate the price of prescription drugs, all the while creating jobs up and down our state by investing in manufacturing right here in America.
HAYES: Your opponent Herschel Walker recently I believe came out and endorsed proposed national abortion ban. The former football star has endorse a 15-week federal abortion ban along with the opposition to all abortions, sharpened his opposition to Medicaid expansion, level new attacks against transgender student athletes.
I want to talk about that federal abortion ban which has been proposed by Lindsey Graham, which of course would be the first of its kind in the country. It would make the landscape across the country like what it has been in Mississippi after Dobbs or what was proposed. Do you support such a ban?
[20:55:08]
WARNOCK: No, I do not. Women who have -- for 50 years have been able to control their own health care choices, saw that summarily taken away from them by an activist Supreme Court. My opponent supports a national ban, as you point out, on abortion. And he says no exceptions. So, that includes rape, incest, the life of the mother. I think there are too many politicians crowding the room of patients. And his extreme position on this, his saying that he doesn`t support Medicaid expansion -- we`ve got 600,000 Georgians, most of them the working poor, who would benefit from Medicaid expansion. These are all the reasons why Georgians have a clear choice about who`s ready to represent them in the United States Senate.
I believe in the wisdom of women, and I support their ability to make choices. I think that a patient`s room is too small and cramped space for a woman, her doctor, and the United States government. He has a different view. I support Medicaid expansion because I believe health care is a human right and it`s past time for us to do something about that in Georgia. He has the opposite view. And so, the contrast between me and him could not be more stark and more obvious.
HAYES: Obviously, you`ve had a long and incredible career before becoming a U.S. senator. What`s the worst thing about being a U.S. senator?
WARNOCK: Well, you know, it`s -- I`m the dad of two small children. And you know, it`s tough being away from them when I`m up here. But as I look into their eyes, I have a 6-year-old daughter, a three-and-a-half-year-old son, I see not only my children, but children all across our state. And I`m someone who benefited from good federal public policy. I like to say I`m an alum of Headstart, a good federal program that invests in children. I`m an alum of Upward Bound, which put a kid who was growing up in public housing on a college campus. And then Pell grants and low-interest student loans.
I know and understand the struggles of hard-working families and the difference that good federal public policy makes when it helps people to live their best lives. And so, I`m deeply honored to represent the people of Georgia as a dad and as a pastor who serves in the Senate.
HAYES: You just mentioned, the cost of college and Pell Grants that enable folks to go to college who might not otherwise be able to afford it. Of course, the president announcing that policy through the Department of Education to cancel $10,000 of student debt, 20,000 for Pell Grant recipients. There`s a lawsuit filed in Texas to strike that down. That lawsuit has been vacated for lack of standing, but it`s clear. And we`ve heard this from your colleague, Ted Cruz, in Texas that conservatives want to find a way to knock that down. What do you think about the efforts to try to essentially get the courts to strike down that debt cancellation?
WARNOCK: Well, I`m glad that we were able to push and that we were able to provide student debt relief for kids, not only who graduate or attend four- year colleges, but two-year schools, community colleges, and vocational schools. And this will provide relief for a lot of folks. What we`ve got to do now going forward, is we`ve got to address the fact that college tuition has far outpaced inflation. We need some larger structural issues.
Education made the difference. It`s -- for me, it`s the reason why a kid who grew up in public housing sits in the Senate. But whether you`re a senator or plumber, you need access to the American dream, access to homeownership, the ability to start a business. And that`s the work that I`m honored to do on behalf of Georgians every single day.
HAYES: There`s your outspoken advocate for Federal Voting legislation. That legislation has not come to pass. And in fact, the court is now taking up another Section of the Voting Rights Act, section two in the term that`s about to begin. They may severely weaken that are you confident that the extant protections in a state like Georgia are sufficient to guarantee that everyone wants to cast a lawful vote in your state will be able to?
WARNOCK: Well, I believe that a vote is a kind of prayer for the world we desire for ourselves and for our children. And the right and access to the ballot is fundamental. It`s part of what makes our system so great, and something that I have fought for long before I came to the Senate. And it`s the reason why I know that I still have work to do in the United States Senate to protect this core, core value.
You know, I was John Lewis` pastor. And in his memory, I continue to fight the good fight. But the people of Georgia have a chance to exercise their vote this election season. And I would encourage them to vote early beginning October 17th.
HAYES: Senator Reverent Raphael Warnock of Georgia, thank you very much for you time tonight.
WARNOCK: Thank you.
HAYES: That is ALL IN for this Thursday night. "ALEX WAGNER TONIGHT" starts right now. Good evening, Alex.