The Aftermath

There is no sugar-coating it, Democrats got walloped across the board. On “How to Win 2024“, Senator Claire McCaskill is joined by hosts of MSNBC’s “The Weekend” to analyze the surprising margins of Trump’s win and what they mean for our democracy and our values. Michael Steele, Alicia Menendez and Symone Sanders Townsend team up with Claire to give some context to how this result unfolded, what to prepare for in a second Trump administration and ways big and small to keep up the fight to move progressive values forward.

And a note to our listeners: Thank you for your ear and your tireless interest in our democracy. This will be our final episode of “How to Win” for now. We may be back here with updates here and there as news warrants, but we’re taking a beat to figure out what this moment calls for and the best way to serve you. And if there are any updates in the future, you’ll be the first to know. So stay tuned to this feed!

This is a rough transcript. Please excuse any typos.

Claire McCaskill: Hello and welcome to “How to Win 2024.” We’re recording this episode on Thursday morning, November 7th, at about 10:30 A.M.. Eastern Time. I’m Claire McCaskill, and, well, folks, we did not win in 2024. We got our ass kicked. It’s not who we wanted, but it is the outcome that we have to live with, and obviously, it’s an outcome that we have to work hard towards changing in the future.

Before we get into results and what it all means, I want to let you know that we’re going to be winding down this podcast after this episode. A year ago, we set out to cover an unprecedented election, and we’ve done that, and then some. What a roller coaster it has been. So, now, it’s time to hang it up.

We might come back with updates here and there as news warrants. But for now, we’re taking a beat to figure out what this moment calls for and the very best way to serve you, the most important people in this enterprise, our podcast listeners. And if there are any updates in the future, you will be the first to know.

But now, let’s get to it. Today, I’m here with three amazing special guests, superstars in their own right, MSNBC’s own, Co-Hosts of “The Weekend,” Symone Sanders-Townsend, Michael Steele, and Alicia Menendez. Hey, everybody, welcome.

Symone Sanders-Townsend: Greetings, Claire.

Alicia Menendez: Hi, Claire.

Claire McCaskill: How tired are we?

Alicia Menendez: We’re tired.

Claire McCaskill: Yes, we’re tired.

Michael Steele: I’ve just kept the IV of Titos and other cocktails going, so I’m good.

Claire McCaskill: You know, I got to tell you the truth. I came home last night after work and I made my first drink and it was a very healthy dirty martini, okay? That was about 7:30. I drank it and I went straight to bed.

Michael Steele: There you go.

Alicia Menendez: I love that for you, okay?

Michael Steele: There you go.

Alicia Menendez: I love that for you.

Claire McCaskill: All right. We need to start with the caveat that what we’re talking about is as of this morning, but frankly, I think we know kind of what’s going to happen here. I’ve looked at the data. It’s pretty clear, we’re going to lose the House.

Also, we don’t know yet what the margin will be in the Senate, and that matters. It matters whether they have 52, because we’ve got a couple of senators that are Independent-minded. We still have Susan Collins and Lisa Murkowski, who I have watched personally stand up to their caucus time and time again. So, if we win the rest of them, that’s great. If they get to 55, then it gets really dicey in terms of our ability. And we don’t know what they’re going to do about the filibuster, which could be a whole podcast. If they blow up the filibuster then all bets are off.

So let’s talk through the results, the warning signs, the surprises. Let’s start with you, Michael. What surprised you?

Michael Steele: I think what surprised me, to be just brutally frank about it, was just a significant majority of the American people having given no prior indication, very much aligned themselves with Trump and Trumpism. Not that they are doing a full embrace of it, but at least from the standpoint of addressing their grievances and their concerns, they felt that what Trump offered was a better vehicle than what Kamala Harris was offering.

The hope and aspirational messaging fell flat with a significant majority of Americans to the point where, for the first time since 2004, 20 years, you have a presidential nominee winning both the popular vote and the electoral college vote, and likely, we’ll have a pretty nice margin. Now, Trump underperformed from his 2020 numbers, but still beat Kamala Harris by what will roughly be somewhere between 2 and 5 million once we see how that settles up.

So that surprised me because I did not think on the heels of everything else, and I’m not even getting into the polling and all of that, Claire, I’m just thinking just straight up how the American people viscerally responded to both of these campaigns, both of their messages, and where they thought they needed the country to go.

They clearly decided they wanted the country to move right, and they wanted it to move right on immigration, they wanted it to move right on the economy. And so, now that we’re in this new space, it’s going to be interesting to see how they react when Donald Trump starts implementing all that stuff that comes with having the country move to the far right.

Claire McCaskill: So, Alicia, what did he tap into and were there warning signs we missed?

Alicia Menendez: Yes. I mean, one of the things that surprised me most was the inroads that Republicans made in New Jersey, I’m a New Jerseyan, in New York, in places where you ordinarily have not seen Republicans be very competitive in the way that they were in this election. But to your point, I think the warning signs were there. I was at the Jersey Shore this summer, and there were Trump flags everywhere. My kids’ mixed-income school, largely Latino in Hudson County, New Jersey had a schoolwide election and the kids voted for Trump. So, perhaps, I should not have been so surprised.

I think, one, I would just warn, it is still very early, and we are running up against, as media folks, the reality that there is the highest interest in this story at the time when there is the least information. So I say that only to say, but I want the opportunity to revise and extend as we learn more. But to me, one of the warning signs that was there and something he tapped into was just anti-incumbency.

Michael Steele: Yes.

Alicia Menendez: And that’s not something that is unique to the United States. We’re seeing that globally. We saw with Sunak who lost votes in the U.K. We saw it with Macron who lost votes in France. We saw it with Modi who lost votes in India. There were losses in Japan, Belgium, Bulgaria, Lithuania for the governing party. So, that’s undergirding all of this.

There was absolute fury with the economy, which, again, like I’ve been in the field over the last four years, and you would stand in parking lots outside of grocery stores, and one of the things that I noticed as a working mom is that folks weren’t coming out with a full, what my mom would call, a shop for the week. They were coming out with one rotisserie chicken. They were coming out with one pack of eggs, that people simply were not able to afford their groceries for the week in one shop at the grocery store. And that was the tell. And that doesn’t mean that the economy, so when you look at the macro picture --

Claire McCaskill: Right.

Alicia Menendez: -- wasn’t an incredible.

Claire McCaskill: Right.

Alicia Menendez: It just means that people were saying, I can’t afford the basic things that I want and need for my family. I think housing, which doesn’t often come up, but I think is one of the fundamentals of the economy, was huge because it is a question about safety and security. If I, as a parent, cannot keep a roof over my children’s head, do I feel that I can keep them safe and secure?

And then I think he tapped into immigration, which I see this question slightly different. We can talk a little bit about immigration. But people want to see an orderly border. They do. And so, I think he extrapolated that out to become xenophobic and anti-immigrant in ways that I don’t think serve us as a country. But I think you put it all together, the anti-incumbency, the economic fury, what he was selling folks around immigration, and it becomes a pretty potent force.

Michael Steele: Claire, can I just ask a quick question and get your thoughts on this, too? You know, not to flip the script here, but Alicia raised a couple of things that I think, for me also, they kind of eat at me because to the extent that the price of eggs and the price of gas matter, to the extent that people want an orderly border.

What struck me is how did the country look past the xenophobia, the racism, the misogyny, to say that those things mattered more. Character of the messenger and the message seemingly had no sway.

I could get up and call the former speaker of the house a B-word or effectively want to do that, I can simulate craziness with a microphone, I can behave in the most disgusting manner, and yet, I’m going to bring the egg prices down, and that’s enough.

Claire McCaskill: Yes, here’s the thing. I think there is some truth to the fact that people always want change in election, and there’s certainly the economic reality that folks can’t afford to retire, they can’t afford to send their kids to college, they can’t afford to take a vacation, has been a problem in America for a while now.

The Democratic Party lost those voters, the working-class voters, because we kept promising change and nothing was getting better for them. Barack Obama, one of the reasons he was so popular, first, he was amazing, but second was because there was a sense he would be a disruptor. He was something very different. We had never done anything like Barack Obama in this country before.

And so, I think there was a sense he was going to be different. And when it turned out not to be that different, I think we lost some of our luster. And here’s the thing, what we saw as disqualifying, what we saw as you can’t elect this guy, he has no integrity, wouldn’t know the truth, if it slapped him up the face with a two-by-four, doesn’t have the morals of an alley cat, doesn’t respect the rule of law, calls people names, he’s the kind of person we don’t want our children to be like, to us, that was a disqualifier.

To most of America, it meant he was a real disruptor. It meant he was going to give the middle finger to the system in a way nobody has given the middle finger to the system. And the only reason he didn’t get it all done last time was because he surrounded himself with swamp people, and secondly, because of the pandemic.

So, in their minds, they rationalize, now, he’s going to have the right people around him and he’s going to really F up all these elites.

Michael Steele: Right.

Claire McCaskill: And the bottom-line, Michael, is the Democratic Party has to come to grips with this. We are now --

Michael Steele: Yes.

Claire McCaskill: -- the party of the elites. And it’s really hard for me to say that, I almost choke on it, because I was brought up with the belief that what my party was all about was looking out for other people, looking out for the underdog, looking out for the little guy, looking out for the guy who took a shower after work, not before work, but we’ve lost those people. And we are now the college-educated elites, and we’ve got to figure out how we show the him to be the fraud he is in the next few years, and that’s a tall order.

Michael Steele: That is actually a particularly important, I think, powerful message and image to come to grips with, because on the Republican side now, we’ve become the party of the working man and woman, even though our back pocket is lined with billionaires and future oligarchs waiting at the trough of Donald Trump and his administration to create the first trillionaire.

And even though most people think that they actually got as much as the billionaires got in the last round of tax cuts, they still hold on to this idea that the Republican Party, Donald Trump, MAGA more specifically, is going to be better for them financially --

Claire McCaskill: Right.

Michael Steele: -- than the Democrats. So that really goes to the heart of your point, I think.

Claire McCaskill: Yes. We were trying to have Symone Sanders-Townsend join us, but we’ve got some technical difficulties. We may have her in the podcast for an answer or two, but we had really difficulty getting hooked up with her.

So, Alicia, you want to tackle for us what’s going on in the Latino community? I hate to pigeonhole you in any way. I know that’s not nice for me to do.

Alicia Menendez: No. I’m very happy to talk about this and I would love to talk about it because I do think that to my point about us having to wait a little bit, I think going off of exit polling data is not the gold standard.

Claire McCaskill: Yeah.

Alicia Menendez: And so, I do want us to wait. But there was a shift. There’s no denying that there was a shift, and that shift was particularly pronounced among Latino men. But I also want to remind us, a majority of Latinos did vote for Kamala Harris, a large majority of Latinas, women like me, voted for Kamala Harris.

But, you know, my husband, this is what he does, he’s been doing focus groups and polling for months, and the thing that they kept finding was that the economic issues were largely crowding out other concerns among this demographic, and that when you would ask folks about some of the ugly things that he had said about our communities, the demeaning things that he had said, what he was saying about immigration, that folks largely fell into one of three buckets. Either they had not heard it because they are not consuming the same media that three of us are consuming. They had heard it and simply did not believe it. Their argument was, he is a businessman, he knows the fundamentals of the economy. We can debate that later. And he would not deport 11 million people because he understands that that’s not economically viable, or they simply are voting on other concerns. You know, there are a lot of Latinos like myself who are multi-generational, who are U.S.-born, who immigration simply wasn’t one of their top concerns.

And so, I think this is part of the bigger conversation that the Democratic Party is going to have to have in terms of a reckoning around non-college-educated, working-class, and men. Those are all of their weak spots, and Latinos fall distinctly into that group.

Claire McCaskill: Yes. And I think part of the problem of the Democratic Party is we’ve looked at our coalition. Each part of our coalition is monolithic, and it is not. It is not. I don’t care what anybody said on the Harris campaign, the trans ads hurt. They hurt.

Michael Steele: Oh, the trans ads were killer.

Claire McCaskill: Yeah, they hurt.

Michael Steele: They didn’t hurt. They kill.

Claire McCaskill: Now, does that make me sad? Yes. Does that change how I feel about what our government should and shouldn’t be doing in people’s personal lives about how they identify and who they love? It doesn’t change my opinion about that. But to act like it is not a political issue that we’ve got to deal with is not very smart.

And I saw it. I remember the gay marriage debate. And, Michael, I mean, you know, I remember how I had to really work hard in the Black community because there was --

Michael Steele: Oh, yes.

Claire McCaskill: -- a huge amount of really calcified opposition, especially among pastors, about gay marriage and whether or not it was something that they could ever acknowledge in terms of the way they saw their biblical commands. And it was really tough.

So I think we’ve got to quit looking at the Latino community. Oh, they’re ours. The Black community, oh, it’s ours. Oh, women. They are ours. I mean, we lost White women again.

Michael Steele: Yes.

Claire McCaskill: I’m pretty sure.

Michael Steele: Fifty two percent.

Claire McCaskill: So, I think we’ve got to really quick looking at it that way and maybe look at these issues as the driving force rather than, okay, do we have the Black vote? Do we have the Latino vote? Do we have the women vote? Do we have the union vote? Do we have the gay vote? Instead, look at these issues top-down like economics and like securing the border and quit trying to differentiate our message based on which part of the coalition we’re talking to.

Michael Steele: I think it’s also going to be interesting in terms of looking at the coalition. One of the aspects of this that I think the Democrats woefully missed or misunderstood was what was happening on the streets, the creation of the bro culture within the Republican ecosystem where they knew, okay, we have a problem with women because of where we are in abortion, where we are in a host of other issues, but we know that as Democrats have leaned into women, they have largely alienated men. And so, that opened up a pathway.

And one of the interesting ways in which that group got got was through digital media. They wound up being on their cell phones and in their digital space 24/7 to the point where over the last year or so, the campaign and the RNC hired over 2,000 influencers, digital influencers to go out and preach this new gospel. That’s how that culture was created so quickly and cemented so firmly, was it was something that happened over time that was not paid a lot attention to.

And so, in this new space where this new cathedral has been built, this bro culture, the Democrats have got to figure out how they disrupt that --

Claire McCaskill: Yes.

Michael Steele: -- and how they kind of get into that space in a new way.

Claire McCaskill: Yes, you’re right. Let’s pause here. When we’re back, more for Michael and Alicia and their colleague and cohort, Symone Sanders-Townsend will also join us. We’re going to talk about why we’re here, what Trump 2.0 looks like in practice. Back in a moment.

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Claire McCaskill: Welcome back. Alicia Menendez, Michael Steele, and Symone Sanders-Townsend, Co-Hosts of MSNBC’s, “The Weekend” are all still with me for this post-mortem election episode. And it’s not a funeral, folks. We’re going to try smile. We’re going to try to get perspective here.

We’ve talked about what has happened. Now, we’re going to look at what it means going forward, what will the new Trump administration mean to the things we care about, especially over the next two years before there is another midterm election.

So, Symone, let’s start with you. What’s keeping you up at night? What are you most worried about?

Symone Sanders-Townsend: Well, I mean, I’m worried about a lot of things. I’m definitely worried about the deportations because I do think that that is something that Stephen Miller and his bill have been very focused on, you know, while in their last couple months when they were in the White House and then, obviously, throughout this entire time.

But immediately, I’m actually most concerned about the transition process because the Trump campaign and the Trump transition team, up until, as we have this conversation, they haven’t signed their transition like MOUs, if you will, with the federal government.

And the Trump folks and people who are on his transition effort had noted that they are considering using an outside entity, a private entity to vet people for clearances. And to me, that’s concerning because the way that it usually works during a transition is the federal government has a particular office with the help of these lawyers that work for transition, that sign up and they do the vetting, they run the background checks, they do the interviews, and this is for people who are, you know, being potential cabinet secretaries, but also people who work in the executive office of the president, all the staff for the president, all the staff for the vice president, right? They have to be vetted.

And, you know, they vet the people because there are some things that make you vulnerable to manipulation by, you know, foreign government, and they look at all these things. And I think now, he’s going to let all these people get clearances that should not have one, you know?

Claire McCaskill: So, I think he’s going to not sign an MOU with the government. I think he’s going to give the middle finger to the traditional process. I think he’s going to do it exactly how he wants to do it. I don’t think he’s going to require FBI clearance checks. I think he’s going to do all that. And you know what? His voters are going to love it.

Michael Steele: Yes.

Claire McCaskill: They are going to absolutely eat it up on a stick because they’re going to say, this is exactly what we need to do. That’s the deep state trying to put their finger on him and he doesn’t need the deep state. All he needs is the team around him and he’s going to save us. So, I think he’s definitely going to do that. I don’t think there’s any question. And, yes, is it scary? Absolutely it’s scary, but it’s going to be politically gold for him.

So, what about you, Alicia, what are you keeping a watch on, what are you most worried about?

Alicia Menendez: I’m going to pick up on what Symone said about deportations because I think there’s been some confusion about whether or not this is actually popular among the American people. I think it’s a question of how you ask it specifically.

I think there’s a lot of frustration about what is happening at the U.S.-Mexico border. I think there is a sense largely based around misinformation that not only are people coming in, who don’t have legitimate asylum claims, but that they’re being given resources, the previous migrants and immigrants who were not given. I hear a lot about these thousand dollar checks that don’t actually exist, but people are convinced that people are being given.

And I think even the people who support deportations, they imagine that it is recent arrivals. That’s not just what Donald Trump and Stephen Miller are talking about. They are talking about deporting people who have lived here sometimes the majority of their lives, people who have small businesses here, people who are deeply ingrained in the fabric of this country. And I am concerned for those people.

And I’m not just concerned by the implementation of that policy by the likes of Stephen Miller. I got to tell you, Claire, I am nervous about the response I am even seeing from those on the left about sort of this anger around Latinos who broke for Trump in some sense that Latinos generally now deserve whatever they get.

And, I mean, my X mentions right now are filled with people being like, well, I hope when they deport your ass, that then you all understand what it is you voted for. And I just want to caution people who are angry and frustrated and have every reason to be angry and frustrated that that isn’t it. We need each other more than we have ever needed each other before. We need community. We need to be caring for our neighbor. And those who are most vulnerable among us are going to be among the first impacted.

Claire McCaskill: Yes, I’ve seen that too, and it worries me. I’ve seen it with Black women lashing out against White women on social media.

Michael Steele: Yes.

Claire McCaskill: And obviously, I get it. You know, I think, what, 92% of Black women voted for Kamala Harris, but it’s going to be really damaging if the folks who voted for Kamala Harris start fighting with each other based on what part of the coalition they might represent.

Alicia Menendez: Can I just say before I ping it over as a fellow White woman who identifies as both Latina and White? I hold space for the fact that I am not the most impacted here. And I can’t imagine --

Claire McCaskill: Right.

Alicia Menendez: -- how angry Black Americans are in this moment.

Claire McCaskill: Exactly right.

Alicia Menendez: And I’m a U.S. citizen and I’m straight and I’m over my baby-making years. So like, there’s a lot of things that are going to happen and are not going to impact you and me directly, Claire.

Claire McCaskill: Right.

Alicia Menendez: So, I want to do both things, right? I want to hold space for that anger and frustration and just say, especially among those of us who have the privilege of feeling semi-safe in this country, that work falls to us.

Claire McCaskill: Yes, I agree.

Michael Steele: Yes. The permission structure has been given for all of that at this point. So, everything that’s been said is going to happen. And the recriminations are real and expected and will be fueled and encouraged.

I’ve seen both of what has been mentioned in terms of an enormous backlash against the Hispanic community and the Black community especially. One person actually texted me and said, you know, effectively, when they start hauling their asses down to Texas to port, please no one call my number because there’s no help for them.

And so, that is actually what Trump’s America will look like, where we are less and less concerned about each other. It is more and more an entrenchment of my camp against your camp, my tribe against your tribe.

And what I’m looking at and what I’m really scared for is that backend. The setup, the, you know, transition, all those pieces are going to be important, but then the implementation of public policy and the fueling of further discord around the country as those policies are implemented, because they will be implemented with a narrative, with an accompanying narrative that says, this side is right. Your side is wrong. This is the way to do it. That’s not the way we’re going to do it.

And I think we’re going to be looking at a more fractured America, which, again, makes it more difficult, not just for the Democratic Party, which is going to have a whole, you know, room full of issues to address that have nothing to do with public policy. They got to figure out how they are going to inform themselves going forward.

But also, more broadly, those of us in the democracy space, what is the conversation we’re now going to have in the country? What’s going to happen with the Adam Kinzingers and Liz Cheneys and, you know, the Joe Walshes and folks like that who are on an absolute island, absolute island, with, I mean, literally folks, I’m talking about the island that is probably about 10 miles across, and that’s it? In any direction, you got no room to move.

And with all those folks, so it’s going to be narrowing, Claire. Everything is going to get narrowed and funneled through this new vision, this new lens of America. And to your point, I think a lot of our fellow citizens are going to lap it up. They’re going to love it, and they’re going to love it up to the point that it impacts them.

Claire McCaskill: So, let’s talk about Elon Musk and let’s speak to what he says he’s going to do. I mean, I came into the Senate as a former auditor. So, I spent a lot of time looking at payrolls without a purpose and where there was waste, and, you know, proud of some of the work I did over at the Pentagon on government contracting, saved billions and billions of dollars by reforming contracting over there.

I know how hard it is to get at doing what Elon Musk has cavalierly said that he’s going to cut two thirds of the government immediately. How did they make good on that promise? Remember the first time Trump was president, he didn’t build a wall, right, and he had the House and the Senate. For two years, he had the House and the Senate. The people who blocked the wall were Republicans.

You know, you’re going to have different leaders now. You don’t have Kevin McCarthy and Mitch McConnell. You’ve got Mike Johnson, who’s a big Trumper, and you’ve got, who knows who at this point in the Senate.

How is this all going to play out them thinking they’re going to take a hatchet to the federal government? And is that the moment where people figure out that a lot of the things, like, how about all the money the farmers get, how are they going to feel about not getting half their income from the federal government anymore?

So, Michael, how does this work, Elon Musk cutting two-thirds of the government, like he cut the employees at Twitter, how you think that’s going to work out for him and the reality of the appropriations process, government funding and government programs that many Americans don’t realize --

Michael Steele: Yes.

Claire McCaskill: -- are part of this deep state?

Michael Steele: Yes. So let’s just be very clear, Elon Musk knows jack about the federal government, he knows jack about running the federal government. You cannot run the federal government like a business. Donald Trump has already proved that in his first term.

This idea that you’re just going to come in and slash a third or two thirds of any program or any department, that you’re going to just outright eliminate the Department of Education or the Department of Health or the department of whatever, fill in the blank, is just it is more deep state stupid speech that is not based in the reality.

Look, I am a small government conservative. I really believe in the limited role of the federal government in our daily lives, but I also have to recognize, because it’s true and real, that the federal government provides essential services to a lot of Americans, but right now, applauding cutting off their own damn check, I mean, you’ve got to realize that when you have people sitting there talking about, they’re going to cut them, fire all these people and downsize these agencies and stop this and stop that, that there’s a ripple effect that you cannot unripple.

And so, Elon Musk so cavalierly, as a billionaire, right, who makes, you know, a hundred million dollars in a day from his government contracts and interests, you know, sitting there talking about downsizing this and cutting that, and we’re going to go and take a knife to these programs is an idiot and its dangerous.

Claire McCaskill: I just think, let’s take one practical example. You cut the Department of Education out is over. Okay, so, right now, that department pays for school lunches and school buses and programming for kids that are learning disabled. So all that money goes away.

And who’s going to feel that? Local school boards, local school districts. And who are they going to scream to? They’re going to scream to their congressmen and their senator. And what’s that congressman and senator are going to do? Well, you know, it’s the deep state, you know, you guys are on your own.

Michael Steele: Right.

Claire McCaskill: Find the money for the school buses, find the money for school lunches. That’s where the disconnect is here. And Trump is not going to want to do this because Trump wants to give everybody everything.

Michael Steele: Right.

Claire McCaskill: He didn’t care about debt, he didn’t care about deficit, he didn’t care. He wants to give every --

Michael Steele: He wants his name on the check.

Claire McCaskill: He wants his name on the check, he wants to make sure nobody’s getting taxed on anything. So, you’re going to have these two people collide. And I think Elon Musk cutting the government is going to be a little bit like building the wall and Mexico’s going to pay for it.

Michael Steele: Yes. It’s just not going to happen. And to your point about education, even if, as Republicans argue, they want to do block grants to the states. Yes. Can we talk about how block grants oftentimes works?

Because when the state gets that, oh, let’s say $700 million or $1 billion, depending on the size of the state, they’re going to be very interested in putting some of those dollars into other things other than, Oh, yes, I’m going to send this down to a local county government or local county school board. That’s not how this is going work.

And so, the impact on education, on health, on transportation, on agriculture, on all of these agencies and departments that, you know, yes, they’re not an entrenched part of our bureaucracy, some of that fat can be peeled away.

Claire, you know, all too well as a U.S. senator where that fat is and how that can be clead (ph), but you also know where the bone is. And when you get down to the bone, that’s when people really start to feel it, and that’s your point. And I think --

Claire McCaskill: Yes.

Michael Steele: -- Elon doesn’t have an understanding of that because he’s never had to worry about the bone of other people.

Claire McCaskill: Alicia, you want to take a spin around foreign policy and what this is going to mean and how this is going to impact the military and our --

Alicia Menendez: Oh my God.

Claire McCaskill: -- allies around the world?

Alicia Menendez: Yes. But before I take that spin that you are offering me, let me also say that my other concern as it relates to everything that Michael just said and where it ties into Elon mosque, is that I do think part of what we’ve realized is that our news and information ecosystem simply is not working --

Claire McCaskill: Right.

Alicia Menendez: -- and reaching enough people. So, when Michael talks about all of those repercussions of not really understanding how the federal government works or understanding but having irreverence for it, I am afraid that the message of why that is happening, why your kid is not getting their school lunch, why the cost of goods is going up, is going to be misrepresented to a lot of Americans.

And that Donald Trump, as he has done before, will point the finger at Democrats and say, well, they’re not letting me do everything that I want to do that’s why it was happening. So, I do think that as it relates to everything that we have witnessed, we need to reimagine the --

Michael Steele: Yes.

Alicia Menendez: -- news and information in a way that actually reaches folks where they are.

As it relates to foreign policy, I think part of what has been interesting just in the past few days is watching world leaders know just who Donald Trump is. And whether that is Viktor Orbán, who Donald Trump has at various points lauded and pointed to as a model for what he would like to do in the United States, or whether that’s Zelenskyy, who understands the critical role that Donald Trump and a Republican Congress is going to play in deciding how much longer he has the resources to continue his fight against autocracy in Ukraine.

And so, I think a lot of world leaders woke up understanding that the consequences of this election are deep. My 7-year-old said to me, does everyone know that Donald Trump won? And I said, yes, I think everybody knows. And she said, well, you know, just like people in the United States know, but people globally don’t know.

And I said, no, baby, like, the United States is the big sister of the world. And so, what they do, everybody else looks to, and they study and it makes them think about how they act themselves. And so they watched with great curiosity because it’s going to mean tremendous things for them, and whether you’re talking about Russia or China or NATO, it’s all right there.

Claire McCaskill: Okay. After the break, Michael and Alicia are going to stick around to sort out some other things we see on the horizon with Donald Trump in the Oval Office. Stay with us.

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Claire McCaskill: Welcome back. Alicia Menendez and Michael Steele, Co-Hosts of MSNBC’s “The Weekend” are still with me for this final episode of “How to Win 2024”. So, as we close out the episode and frankly, this era, let’s look at what’s next. Michael, go.

Michael Steele: Yes, look, I think this dynamic and, you know, at one point, you know, Claire and I have been hanging out over the last week here at MSNBC and at various times talking and we’ve been paired up quite a bit, and I just looked at you, I didn’t say anything to you, Claire, I just looked at you, we were at the table one night and I just looked at you, and I said, this woman needs to be in the U.S. Senate, but then I wouldn’t want to wish that on you (LAUGH) in this environment because, you know, it wouldn’t be fun.

And the reason I say this is because the country’s going to need voices like yours. You know, you and I will spar over policy all day long, but at the end of the day, I know your heart is in the right place and I know your efforts will be on behalf of the people that you represent, and I know you know that about me in my public role.

What we have now emerging in the Senate is a MAGA Senate, which takeover will be complete, and a MAGA House, aligned with a MAGA president. And so, where that places Democrats is in a very difficult governing position.

Yes, they may be in the minority in both chambers, not clear just yet whether the House is secured by Republicans, but let’s say it is, it will be very difficult for the Democrats to work with a group of political politicians who are not interested in anything other than what Donald Trump wants.

And so, objectively, trying to negotiate which will have to happen on the nation’s debt and finances, when legislation is going to be leveled up to strip out Obamacare and healthcare, when the national ban on abortion comes forward, there will be no one willing to listen to the arguments that will be made by Democrats.

And that is going to be a very cool reality for the country, is going to be a very cool reality, I think, for Democrats, because as we’ve noted privately and I think we can stay publicly, the Republicans who would’ve been in the House to serve in that role are no longer there, for example. So, it’s going to be very difficult space, I think at least in the first year. Things will turn a little bit as you get closer to the congressional cycle of ‘26, but right now, it is going to be full steam ahead. MAGA agenda, get as much done as they can in the first 100 days, set the table for the backend financial discussions as you get to the end of the budget year.

But I think it’s going to be very, very hard for the Democratic Party legislatively and from a governing position to effectively help steer the country because there wouldn’t be any room on the wheel to do that.

Claire McCaskill: Yes. You know, I kind of hope that in some ways, you know, part of me thinks it’ll be better if they take the House as long as we stay disciplined on messaging and make sure they understand that they have the power now to do everything they said they were going to do. And if they don’t do it, I don’t think he was ever held accountable --

Michael Steele: Right.

Claire McCaskill: -- for all the things he promised the first time and didn’t deliver the first two years when he had the House and the Senate.

So, Alicia, what do you think in terms of the postmortem, is the message here, don’t stray from the base, I’m hearing a little bit from the left that Harris tried too hard to reach the middle and lost Palestinian supporters and lost by campaigning with the Chinese, she lost some of the left, then there’s others saying, you know, the biggest issue was she wasn’t willing to put more distance between her and Biden, and that was the big problem, what do you think the biggest problem was?

Alicia Menendez: I think the fundamentals were really hard here. And I’m going to leave it to the politicos to do the analysis or perhaps to Michael Steele, who’s already done that type of postmortem and then had a party that chose not to follow any of the advice that he laid out. But, Claire, I’m going to offer you something different because I think that your --

Claire McCaskill: Go.

Alicia Menendez: -- listeners, if they are like me then they’re wondering what they can do. And so, what I’d say is this, is, one, get off your phone, the answer is not on your phone, and fighting with folks on social media is not the just crusade that it feels like in this heated and intense moment care for each other. You’re going to have to find a way to get really curious about your neighbor and about people and your family and why it is that they feel the way they do about Donald Trump and, by extension, about the Democratic Party.

You know, we had Ian Bassin on “Deadline” with Nicolle, and it was right after Jeff Bezos had decided not to endorse either candidate from his post at “The Washington Post.” And you had so many people who were so angry and they were pulling their subscriptions from “The Washington Post.” And I said, “Ian, I understand that anger, but, like, is that the way?” And he said, “Absolutely not.”

Like, what you want to do is create an information-rich society and a press that is able to hold power to account then you need to be upping your subscription. You have the basic subscription, you go in there and you tell them you want puzzles and recipes too, because journalists and truthtellers and storytellers have needed our support and our resources like never before.

And so, this is the moment where we all think, how do I support a thriving democracy, understanding the ways in which it is currently under attack? And it’s an important conversation. I don’t mean to undermine it. I will let the partisans figure out the partisan piece. I will let the politicos figure out the political piece. what can I, as a citizen, do in my little corner of the world to make sure we survive?

Claire McCaskill: Yes. And, listen. I’m so glad you did. One of the reasons we’re here is that we have got calcified bubbles of affirmation, not information, and everyone is going for affirmation, nobody wants the real information.

So the only places you get, straightforward information many times is local. You know, there’s other news sources that I would certainly argue are, but it’s harder to convince people of that right now.

So, if you have a small business, take out an ad in your local paper, you know, give up a little money that you’re advertising on Facebook and advertise in your local paper. I think this is really important.

When I came to Washington in 2007, there were like 12 reporters assigned to Washington from Missouri newspapers. Today, there are zero. Literally zero.

Alicia Menendez: Yes.

Michael Steele: Yes.

Claire McCaskill: So, nobody in Missouri knew Josh Hawley had only come home like, you know, three times a year for the last six years. I couldn’t have ever gotten away with that.

Michael Steele: Right.

Claire McCaskill: I mean, they would’ve been on me like, you know, no tomorrow. So, that local impact is so big. Like we’ve got a thing called the Independent Missouri, that’s a local journalistic effort that depends on contributions, find those organizations and give money to them, maybe a little bit more to them this year than you do your favorite other charity that you give to at Christmastime.

Alicia Menendez: Though probably both because everybody’s going to need it all right now.

Claire McCaskill: You’re right.

Michael Steele: Yes.

Claire McCaskill: You’re right.

Michael Steele: That’s true.

Claire McCaskill: All right, guys, I want to thank you, guys, so much for being with me today for this last episode. I can’t imagine people I would’ve liked to spend it with more than you all. And you, guys, don’t miss their shows, they’re really good. All three of them are terrific. We had some issues with Symone’s technical capability of joining us today. I want to get that in there. We didn’t leave her out of this conversation. We had a lot of technical issues today. But it’s been my honor and pleasure to have Michael, you and Alicia here with us today for this last episode of “How to Win” and I look forward to being at your table on “The Weekend” --

Michael Steele: Oh, yes.

Claire McCaskill: -- in the near future.

Michael Steele: Oh, yes. Thank you.

Alicia Menendez: We’re going to give you one weekend to take a nap, Claire.

Claire McCaskill: All right.

Michael Steele: Yes, exactly.

Claire McCaskill: Thank you very much. I’ll take it.

And a big thank you today to the listeners. Even though we may not have won the White House or the Senate, or probably the House, the fight goes on. So find ways to hold onto hope and claim victory even in small moments, whether through service to your community or volunteering in a local election. There’s a lot to fight for. And just because we didn’t win this time doesn’t mean that we’ve given up on our country. And continue to hold the newest administration accountable.

Try not to tune out. I know it’s really tempting right now just to say, hell, with it. I mean, I feel that way. You know, I just want to go to a movie theater with a flask of bourbon. You know, I want to go someplace where I don’t have to talk about this anymore. And give yourself some grace on that. Give yourself a week or two, but then you’ve got to get back in the fight. You’ve got to pay attention because we’ve got to hold these guys accountable. Ultimately, that’s how we will take back the levers of power that matter to the values that we hold dear.

So, thank you for your time and your ears this past year. Please continue to join us online and on-air for ongoing political coverage and keep your eyes peeled for what’s next from MSNBC podcasting. And, of course, remember to subscribe to MSNBC Premium on Apple Podcasts for ad-free listening.

Okay, and one last time, this show is produced by Vicki Vergolina. Let me stop there and say, she’s amazing. I’m not going to get emotional here. I’m really happy to have worked with her on this effort.

Janmaris Perez, it took me about six months to figure out how to say her name, but once I did, I realized what a jewel she is, and I am so proud to have worked with her as our Associate Producer.

Katie Lau, like cow, that’s what they say on my read so I don’t mess it up, I don’t think I messed it up one time, Katie, is our Audio Engineer, and she’s terrific. Our Head of Audio Production is Bryson Barnes. Aisha Turner is the amazing Executive Producer for MSNBC Audio and has done a terrific job herding us and corralling us and making sure we get this across the finish line. And Rebecca Kutler is the Senior Vice President with Vision for content strategy at MSNBC. Thanks for listening.